Governance and Audit Committee

Background provided by Ian Phillips – Audit Wales. · The main finding of the report was that the council acted quickly and decisively and now had a good level of control over its corporate safeguarding arrangements. · The council had fully implemented 7 of the 11 recommendations with plans in place to address the remaining 4 recommendations. · No further recommendations had been made in the report due to the good work that had been completed by the council. · 5 ‘Areas for Future Focus’ had been identified, where the council may wish to seek further assurance about the full implementation of associated actions. Audit Wales would be monitoring this through the annual assurance and risk assessment process. The areas were as follows: 1. Was the council assured that the ‘Volunteering for the Council’ policy was being implemented effectively? 2. Was the council assured that the new contract management framework and system was delivering the intended insight and oversight? 3. Mandatory safeguarding Training: Is the Council assured that there is effective Corporate oversight of mandatory safeguarding training for volunteers? Was the Council assured that the rate of school staff compliance with VAWDVSV training was improving? Was the council assured regarding school staff compliance with mandatory corporate safeguarding training? 4. To update the contractor’s guidance for safer recruitment. 5. Had the Council put in place appropriate measures of success to understand the impacts of addressing the recommendations? • Overall feedback was positive; however, it was noted that item 12 of the agenda, the latest corporate safeguarding activity report, was high-level and lacked detail. The committee was responsible for ensuring they received the necessary assurance from these reports. Cabinet Member for Future Generations • The committee could see the progress made in the last 2 years. Corporate Safeguarding had a higher profile in the council and the Corporate Safeguarding Board was well supported by cabinet members and senior officers. • The Corporate Safeguarding Board was conscious of the work still to do around volunteering and contractors, and this would be highlighted in forthcoming work. The Director of Social Service and Wellbeing • Areas of future focus had been identified by the Corporate Safeguarding Board and were scheduled for consideration at future meetings. • Assurance around volunteering would be addressed. • Recommendation 7 was an area of ongoing work, but progress had been made. • Volunteers mandatory safeguarding training compliance would be discussed at the next Corporate Safeguarding Board Meeting in December 2024. • Assurance given that the contractor guidance for safer recruitment would be updated as soon as possible. • Success measures would be a challenge for the Corporate Safeguarding Board in the future. Activity reports would be reviewed alongside this process. Issues Raised by the Committee: Responses Received: The committee thanked Audit Wales for the report and commended the service for the improvement seen. Was there a timeline for completion and an explanation around the uncompleted actions? The Director of Social Services and Wellbeing reported that 7 of the 11 actions had been completed, with 4 remaining open and requiring further work. Timescales would be included in the action plan and reviewed at the December meeting of the Corporate Safeguarding Board. The next Corporate Safeguarding Board activity report would include timescales for the Governance & Audit Committee to review. Did the audit examine good practices to identify tips for accelerating progress? It was agreed that Audit Wales would share tips and advice with the Director of Social Services and Wellbeing and the Cabinet Member for Future Generations privately.

Background provided by Bethan Hopkins, Audit Wales • Objective of the audit was to understand progress against previous audit undertaken in 2023. • The report did not cover an updated performance of the planning service, or the merits of individual planning applications. • The service responded quickly and implemented all 2023 recommendations in full. • No further recommendations were made within the report. Further monitoring would be carried out via the assurance and risk process. • Audit Wales felt the Governance and Audit Committee should be updated on the progress of the planning service going forward. • The Chair accepted the committee could have had interim update reports to be given assurance about the progress of this. Pleased to read the follow up report and credit to the officers. The Head of Planning & Regulatory Services • Thanked Audit Wales for the report, welcomed the findings and added that their support had been instrumental in informing the planning services action plan that has helped to develop a culture of continuous improvement going forward. • Thanked the staff in planning and support services in Powys County Council who had worked to improve the service provision. Issues Raised by the Committee: Responses Received: Requested assurance that the elements not covered in the report were also progressing in the right direction. The Cabinet Member for Connected Powys offered assurance that the service was now in a good position and the Planning Improvement Board would be stood down as there were other steps in place to adequately measure planning performance going forward. Committee requested comment around the first planning enforcement recommendation. How was the service dealing with outstanding enforcement cases? The Head of Planning & Regulatory Services reported a significant drop in active investigations and outlined an action plan to reduce these to 250 over the next 12 months. The addition of two enforcement officers had a substantial impact and continued to assist the team. The committee was pleased to note the results of this follow-up report and had received significant positive feedback from the public regarding improvement in the planning service.

Background provided Audit Lead, Mr Gareth P Jones. · Q2 Update was correct as at the end of September 2024. · Noted the Financial Sustainability Report was in clearance and would be presented to the Governance & Audit Committee in January 2025 alongside the National Audit Report published by the Auditor General in December 2024. · Commissioning Review and Scrutiny Review planned to be presented to the Committee in the Spring 2025. · Preparations were being made to undertake a Corporate Governance Review. Issues Raised by the Committee: Responses Received: The committee requested a timeframe for the Corporate Governance Review. Planned to begin work in Spring 2025 and would work with the committee to arrange dates for presentation. Why had the thematic review regarding- staffing resources / pressures in local government been deferred to 2025-26? This was a strategic decision to allow Audit Wales to work through outstanding work. When would the Capital Planning in Local Government Report be presented to the committee? An update could be provided following the meeting. – ACTION Had the Thematic Review of Unscheduled Care been released? Powys’s review had been drafted and should be cleared through the Regional Partnership Board in the next few weeks.

Background provided by Ian Halstead, Assistant Director SWAP · Assurance was given that coverage was reasonable for the position at Q2. · Work was on track to deliver the work programme and provide an annual opinion at end of 2024. · 77% of assurance work was either substantial or reasonable. · No areas of high corporate risk in this report, however there was one area of significant concern which would be presented to the committee at a later date. · 60% of all actions were implemented over the last 18 months. 134 remained outstanding, 65% of which were overdue. · SWAP asked the committee or its Internal Audit Working Group to work with SWAP to drill down into the human factors around root causes and understand themes.

Issues Raised by the Committee: Responses Received: Having 65% of unachieved actions overdue was a matter of concern. What was being done to improve this? The Director of Corporate Services answered that the internal audit action tracking report was regularly presented to the Corporate Leadership Team and Senior Leadership Team to review performance. Proposed that this report would be the next deep dive to ensure actions were followed up. Actions should be reviewed by each service management team on a monthly basis. Assurance was given that this would be an agenda item at the next Corporate Leadership Team meeting and would report back to the committee with findings and actions of the review. Page 136 Overdue actions Could SWAP and Corporate Leadership Team work on actions overdue by more than 91 days to examine whether a case could be made to dispose of actions that were no longer relevant, and bring this work to the committee in the future? ACTION It was requested that an analysis of service areas and the impact of the incomplete actions be included in the review. 14 cases were granted an extension and the actions still had not been implemented. Why? The Director of Corporate Services answered that this was raised by Corporate Leadership Team during the Q1 report and communications were sent to all Heads of Service to remind them that extensions in terms of timescale were not an option. This would be followed up. The Assistant Director for SWAP added that the Internal Audit Working Group were meeting on 21st Nov and would look at this in greater detail. The support of the committee and Corporate Leadership Team were appreciated

Background provided by the Capital & Financial Planning Accountant. · Report was an update of the treasury management position of the council at the end of September 2024 (Q2). · The council was not holding external investment other than what was in its short notice deposit accounts. · Regarding the council’s capital position, a significant amount of reprofiling had taken place in the last quarter. The capital budget was initially set at £100million and peaked at £120million with the reprofiling and extra grants awarded, it now sat at £86million. Some more reprofiling was still to be done. · £21million of the programme is to be supported by borrowing. · The latest estimates for the council’s capital financing requirement had dropped down to £447million. · Regarding borrowing, PWLB rates remained static, inter-authority borrowing had decreased but was not dropping as expected and had picked up slightly since the report was drafted. · Substantial debt had been maturing this year, which was a conscious decision to replace long term debt with short-term 12-month borrowing. To ensure that as interest rates fell the council was not left with long-term debt with high interest rates. · The council was £100million under borrowed. · There was more borrowing to be repaid in the next quarter. · Higher interest rates shown in table 4 were driving up financing costs and net revenue stream compared to when the budget was set in February/ March time. What was estimated to be £12.9million would £13.3million by the end of the year. This would affect future years as interest rates were not set to fall in future as expected. · All prudential indicators were complied with in the quarter. · Council tax collection figures were down slightly from previous years. Issues Raised by the Committee: Responses Received: The committee asked why sundry debt showed a considerable level of debt owed to highways. There were outstanding invoices related to bonds and commuted sums under section 38 of the Highways Act that had been raised and not yet paid by the debtor. These monies were held to ensure street works were up to standard before the council adopted them. Committee queried whether it was normal to have £1.2million aged over 90 days. No, however, 1/3 of that related to the 3 invoices. Assurance given that the council would not adopt until correct. Concern was raised regarding the priority level of incorrect VAT on invoices, and it was requested that this be escalated. The purchase card team have increased communications regarding this and continued to offer training. The finance team were continuing to adopt the process where if a transaction on the purchase card system did not have a receipt, the VAT would not be reclaimed. The Director of Corporate Services added that in managing the overall budget position the council had increased scrutiny of purchase cards. Routine monthly performance went to Heads of Service to be scrutinised at transaction level. Over 51 accounts had closed since April 2024. A new finance dashboard had been launched for managers, of which purchase cards were a key element. It was asked why the number of VAT errors was increasing quarter by quarter. Officer to present an answer after the meeting. ACTION ‘Supplies not to PCC’ last year amounted to £8k.This year it had already amounted to £63k. Vast majority was ascribed to ‘legal’ – could this be explained? The vast majority was due to elections, and a small extent was due to purchasing goods for refugees’ schemes. The council was not the end user and hence unable to recover VAT. The full costs were recovered from relevant persons, such as UK Government or grant systems. What was the cost of taking out the short-term borrowing to cover outstanding debts? Had all actions been taken to recover debts, e.g. had the authority contacted Welsh Government to enquire about an interest free loan? The Director of Corporate Services answered that a calculation of the impact of late cash on interest could be provided by the Capital & Financial Planning Accountant. Regarding social care debt, the council had not approached the Welsh government, but this was not a body that could loan money. Assurance was given that Powys County Council had a rigorous debt recovery process and had invested in increasing the debt recovery team. The Deputy Head of Finance added that there was a debt recovery working group which looked specifically at aged debt, how it could be prevented and recovered. Interest was charged on social services debt deferred charges. The Portfolio Holder for Finance and Corporate Transformation added that CPI Inflation figures increased by 0.6%, which was 0.1% higher than anticipated. This would have a significant impact on interest rates going forward. Although a steady reduction in interest rates had been seen over previous months, stability would be required for the foreseeable future.

Background provided by the Senior Investigator for Fraud. · Reactive and proactive work remained on target. · Point 7 – The Cabinet Office had introduced additional data specifications through the National Fraud Initiative; o Additional data around the number of bedrooms in a home would help with prioritisation. o Additional data around agency workers would support the team to detect fraud. o Additional data around dependents receiving the pension of a deceased member had also been introduced. · The officer offered to report back to the committee when the results from these changes began to show. · A significant increase in scam and fraud alerts around artificial intelligence had been seen. The fraud team were working to get as much information to the public, members and officers as possible. · Audit Wales Officer highlighted that Audit Wales had published their NFI report on 24th October 2024. · The Director for Corporate Services added that it was fraud awareness week, which the fraud team used to increase communication and publicity. Issues Raised by the Committee: Responses Received: Had the authority ever handled criminal cases against employees, or was procedure solely disciplinary? The council had taken criminal cases to court in the past. That decision would be taken by a sanctioned panel, following the necessary policy. A disciplinary case could be running parallel to this. The committee requested clarification on the wording on page 159 of the agenda. The Senior Investigating Officer answered that the figures shown represented the revenue gained from 1st April 2024 to the completion of this report in Q2. The committee suggested the table on page 159 could be presented differently and asked that quality assurance be performed in preparation for the next report. It was explained that the overpayment and rebills were separate and on top of the income gains. Assurance was given that this would be looked at in preparation of future reports. Requested to be presented with the cost of this service to understand overall costs and savings. This information had come to the committee in the past so would be available in previous minutes. The Senior Investigating Officer could provide this information following the meeting. The committee requested senior officers to be cognizant of the merits of investing in the fraud team as the authority worked with resourcing going forward.

Background provided by the Deputy Head of Finance. · There were 15 strategic risks managed by the council at the end of Q2. · Risk owners were requested to review risks on a quarterly basis and use the JCAD system to update progress and changes and provide assurance that mitigating actions were in place. Those details were available in Appendix A of the report. · There was no change to any strategic risk rating in Q2. Issues Raised by the Committee: Responses Received: It was explained that Sustainable Powys was the mitigation to the financial sustainability risk. Potential risks in the Sustainable Powys delivery space were not articulated on the strategic risk register which remained an assurance concern. It was felt that the risk rating for risk PROC0008 – Geopolitical climate risk, was low. Clarification was sought regarding the process of deciding risk level in this instance. The Director for Corporate Services answered that the residual risk was based on current position and could increase at any time. Assurance was given that mechanisms were in place to control the overview of this risk rating. The Director of Economic Development & Growth added that a deep dive had been completed with this risk and could be brought back to the committee. ACTION Requested an update regarding the WCCIS, to provide assurance that risks had not occurred due to fragmentation of the old system. The Director for Social Services and Wellbeing answered that the tender for the new system had closed and results were confidential. A significant review and rewrite of this risk would take place in December 2024. A detailed update regarding timelines and milestones could be provided at the next committee meeting. ACTION Assurance provided that the SRO was pleased with the progress that had been made. Concern was raised regarding the potential risk of the council having to defend itself against insurance claims caused by insufficient highways maintenance. Director of Economic Development and Growth answered that a risk deep dive on the adaptations of highways could beneficial for the committee. ACTION It was noted that evaluating the specific risks related to Risk PPPP0014 would be beneficial. Divergent views between different authorities on the same body of water and emerging proposals from Bannau Brycheiniog could pose challenges to delivering essential housing targets and economic development infrastructure needs. The Director of Economic Development & Growth answered that this would benefit from a risk deep dive. ACTION

Background provided by the Director of Social Services and Wellbeing. · The report was a high-level summary of discussions held at the meeting of the Corporate Safeguarding Board on the 12th of September 2024. · Assurance was provided that the actions and action tracker were reviewed at every meeting. · Terms of Reference were reviewed, and a draft amended version would be taken to the board in December 2024 for approval. · An update on the outcomes of the Child Exploitation strategy was provided. · Regular updates from housing and education services were provided. · The Child Exploitation Strategy and Implementation Plan was discussed. · New to the agenda was a summary of learning from child and adult practice reviews – covered issues such as child exploitations, sexual abuse, the death of a child and emphasised the importance of multi-agency collaboration, early intervention and a child first approach in terms of safeguarding practices. · The next board meeting would be held on the 12th of December 2024. · Activity reports were going to be reviewed as part of the Board’s December meeting to ensure the purpose of the activity reports and the needs of the governance and audit committee were being met moving forward. · Audit Wales noted that the report lacked detail and thanked the Director of Social Services and Wellbeing for reviewing this at the next Board meeting. · No comments or questions were raised by the committee.

Background provided by the Head of Legal and Monitoring Officer. · 54 complaints had been received in 2023-24, 3 were closed. · Intervention rate of 13% · 16 recommendations were open, 31% complied with in the timescales required. To improve this going forward the Corporate Leadership Team had ensured that all recommendations from the Public Service Ombudsman would be added to the regulatory tracker. Issues Raised by the Committee: Responses Received: The committee urged senior managers to be aware of the risk that staff not taking actions sufficiently seriously could become ingrained in the council’s culture. The Head of Legal and Monitoring Officer agreed that there was a malaise around completing actions and the Corporate Leadership Team would be able to review actions through the regulatory tracker in future. The committee asked why the timescales had not been met and whether there were implications caused by missed deadlines. Actions had been completed but not in a timely manner. Hence why Corporate Leadership Team agreed to have all future recommendations from the Public Service Ombudsman placed onto the regulatory tracker. The committee asked whose responsibility it was to follow up actions set by the Public Service Ombudsman and whether the Governance and Audit Committee would receive an update on this in future. This would be a matter for the Corporate Leadership Team. Bullet point 1 had already been complete. The Senior Leadership team would be focusing on actions raised in bullet point 2. Bullet Point 3 would be completed by the Leader. The committee asked whether the Public Service Ombudsman wished to attend today’s meeting and whether they had been notified. The Public Service Ombudsman had not been notified of today’s meeting but would be notified that the letter had been received in today’s meeting.

Background provided by the Head of Business Intelligence and Governance. · The committee previously endorsed the draft Annual Governance Statement in July 2024. · The Annual Governance Framework developed and set out processes, systems, records and responsibilities that underpin the Annual Governance Statement. · Audit Wales reviewed the Annual Governance Statement and the supporting framework, and no formal recommendations were received. It was deemed to be compliant with CIPFA requirements and consistent with auditor’s knowledge. Some observations were presented and looked to be imbedded in future processes. · The Annual Governance Statement enabled demonstration of the extent to which governance was effective based on best practice from CIPFA & SOLACE surrounding governance. · Overall assessment of assurance this year was reasonable. · The Improvement actions identified in Annual Governance Statement were already being progressed ready for reporting 2024-25 Annual Governance Statement. · Sought approval of finalised Annual Governance Statement. Issues Raised by the Committee: Responses Received: The committee queried whether the themes were missing from page 253 of the report. The Head of Business Intelligence & Governance answered that this was outlined at the top of the next page. 3 complaints had originated from 3 separate school settings and the themes would be added in prior to publication. This committee added that the process of constructing the Annual Governance Statement supported by the framework had improved over the past 2-3 years. RESOLVED to approve the Annual Governance Statement 2023/24

· The committee was asked to consider and approve the 2023-24 accounts and letter of representation. The Director of Corporate Services and Section 151 Officer. · Statement of accounts were signed off on the 28th June 2024 by the Section 151 Officer in line of deadline issued. · Auditor General intended to issue an unqualified opinion on the 2023-24 accounts following receipt of the certified letter of representation and the approved statement of accounts. · The Section 151 Officer advised that all misstatements had been corrected. · Recommendations identified in the Auditor General’s report had been accepted and the corresponding actions responding to that had been included in the document presented. · Governance and Audit Committee were requested to consider the statement of accounts, explanations provided and the advice of Audit Wales before considering and approving the report in line with the recommendation. Emma Woodcock, Audit Wales – ISA260 Report • Audit Wales gave an unqualified opinion with nothing of concern to be brought to the committee’s attention. • The materiality level was £5.8million. Appendix 3 provided details of amendments made above the trivial level. • The trivial level was £291k. • Specific interest was given to items considered material by nature which included the related party disclosures and remuneration report. • No uncorrected misstatements. • All misstatements in appendix 3. • All recommendations in appendix 4. Issues Raised by the Committee: Responses Received: The committee noted that the time taken to provide working papers was deemed unacceptable. The Financial Reporting & Policy Accountant answered that this stemmed from distributing information and awaiting responses. It was planned to have inflow next year, introduced by Audit Wales which should assist monitoring outstanding items. The committee inquired about the impact of reports issued throughout the year, noting several amendments made after year-end. The Director Corporate Services and Section 151 Officer answered that most amendments related to notes in accounts and not substantive statements. There was no impact of those notes on the decisions of the council. The Financial Reporting & Policy Accountant added that there were no adjustments on usable reserves, which would be used in decision making. Council tax collection rates had decreased slightly. How significant was the change? What was the cost value? What was the impact? Could it be benchmarked against other local authorities? Late recovery of income owed to the council was monitored closely. Assurance was given that the collection rate for Powys was in line with the rest of Wales. All authorities had experienced a reduction in collection rates since covid. The teachers’ pension fund had changed by £2.58million. An explanation was requested regarding the revised figure increasing by 21%. The Financial Reporting & Policy Accountant explained that the authority estimated pensions for the following year and needed to apply a percentage to do so. There was an error in the calculation of this figure, which the Financial Reporting & Policy Accountant apologised for. The audit picked up a historical error from 2021 regarding the capital expenditure and capital financing, was there a systemic reason why this had not been picked up previously? It was a result of new guidance and more scrutiny given over this note. New guidance had been issued this year as part of the Prudential Code regarding checks that should be made which highlighted the historical error. Disappointment was shared regarding the number of misstatements, adjustments and corrections that were made in connection with note 31 and note 35. It was acknowledged that the errors were not material but were important and it was expected that this number of errors would not be seen in future years. An Audit Wales Officer answered that the set of accounts presented were good and provided in a timely manner. Audit Wales hoped to bring the audit timetable forward over the next 2 years. The ability to produce high quality timely accounts would be fundamental for that timetable to work and would require the appropriate resourcing. The Director of Corporate Services and Section 151 Officer added that the timeliness of papers was down to the dedication of the team. And it was the responsibility of the Section 151 Officer to ensure requirements could be met and a robust financial management system was in place to serve the council. It was evident how cognizant the committee was of the resourcing capacity and capability of the corporate teams, and their absolute importance to governance, assurance, and risk management for the authority. The committee fully supported efforts to ensure the ongoing appropriate level of resourcing for the teams providing these essential statutory support services to the council and if there were any changes or risks, the committee would be particularly keen to understand the resourcing models being applied. No comments were raised regarding the Letter of Representation. Resolved: To approve the Statement of Accounts for 2023/24 and authorised the Chair and Head of Finance (Section 151 Officer) to sign the Accounts and Letter of Representation.

Background provided by the Financial Reporting & Policy Accountant. • The committee was asked to sign the letter of representation and consider the ISA 260 before agreement of the pension fund accounts. · Sought the committee’s approval of the Pension Fund Accounts following which the annual report would be presented to the Pensions & Investment Committee on the 27th of November 2024. · The Pensions and Investment Committee received the Draft Pension Fund Report in October 2024. · An adjustment in the Board Chair’s Report within the Annual Report addressed scheme member representative attendance. This amendment had been made and was scheduled to be presented to the Pensions & Investment Committee the following week. · Recently undertook 2 seminars which included the Pension Fund accounts. Audit Wales presentation of the ISA 260 • The accounts and supporting papers provided were good. • Materiality was set at £8.3million and triviality was set at £417k. • Unqualified opinion had been issued with no significant issues to report. • No unadjusted misstatements. • 3 adjusted misstatements above trivial level but under materiality level. • No recommendations were made. Issues Raised by the Committee: Responses Received: These were the first set of accounts provided against a revised set of guidelines. Were there any lessons to be learned in preparation of the accounts for next year? The Financial Reporting & Policy Accountant answered that there was some information that the council did not hold which the new guidelines requested, and was going to be looked at in the next year. An Audit Wales Officer added that it would be beneficial for Audit Wales and Powys County Council to meet in the new year to conduct post project learning. No comments were raised regarding the Letter of Representation or the ISA 260. The committee reiterated their support for the Corporate Services team, crediting them for presenting good sets of accounts. Thanks were extended to the Audit Wales team for their professionalism and conduct, which significantly contributed to the assurance the committee could draw from the process. Resolved: To approve the Pension Fund Accounts for 2023/24 and authorised the Chair and Head of Finance (Section 151 Officer) to sign the Accounts and Letter of Representation.

Background: · Noted that it was agreed previously in the meeting that deep dives were to be added to the forward work plan for 2025. · Noted that the Annual Complaints Report and the Annual Whistleblowing Report needed to come to the committee annually.

Background: Cllr P Lewington provided an update on the whistleblowing working group: • Meetings were held on 18th September and 4th November 2024. • The group completed responses to fictional case studies, covering all eventualities but acknowledged potential weaknesses until tested against real cases. • Suggested updates to the Whistleblowing Policy were under review, including the necessity of both a policy and a code. • FAQs and a flowchart were finalised for reference. • The group was finalising content for future annual reports to the Governance and Audit Committee. • Planned to present more work to the committee in January 2025. • Special thanks were extended to Gemma Gabriel. Chair Lynne Hamilton provided an Internal Audit Working Group update: • The next working group meeting would be held on 21st November 2024. • The group reviewed progress reporting and late management actions in detail. • Updates on Ysgol Calon Cymru and Brecon High School were provided following discussions with the Governance and Audit Committee. • The working group received a procurement card audit update. • Progress against management actions was a key focus for the working group.

RESOLVED to exclude the public for the following items of business on the grounds that there would be disclosure to them of exempt information under category 3 of The Local Authorities (Access to Information) (Variation) (Wales) Order 2007). The Monitoring Officer has determined that category 3 of the Access to Information Procedure Rules applies to the following items. His view on the public interest test (having taken account of the provisions of Rule 14.8 of the Council's Access to Information Rules) was that to make this information public would disclose information relating to the financial or business affairs of any particular person (including the authority holding that information). These factors in his view outweigh the public interest in disclosing this information. Members are asked to consider these factors when determining the public interest test, which they must decide when considering excluding the public from this part of the meeting. Proposed by Cllr W Denson-Powell and seconded by Lay Member J Brautigam.