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The minutes are published. No summary has been written yet.
Apologies for absence were received from Dr Richard Jones Director of Education and Anwen Orrells Head of School Improvement & Learning.
The Committee received the following Declarations of Interest from Members relating to items to be considered on the agenda. Co-opted Committee Member Kathryn Chedgzoy as Parent / Chair of Governors cannot be involved in discussion on Ysgol Bro Cynllaith. Cllr Aled Davies as the Local Member for Llansilin, Llanrhaeadr-ym-Mochnant and Llangedwyn has a dispensation.
The Committee did not receive any disclosures of prohibited party whips which a Member has been given in relation to the meeting in accordance with Section 78(3) of the Local Government Measure 2011.
Documents Considered: · Minutes of the 15th July 2024. Minutes agreed by Committee members present as a true and accurate reflection of the meetings and ratified accordingly by the Chair.
Background: - the following Reports had been included within the agenda pack: Cabinet Paper – Ysgol Bro Cynllaith Proposal Summer 2024 Appendix A – Ysgol Bro Cynllaith Option Appraisal Spring 2024 Appendix B – Ysgol Bro Cynllaith Impact Assessment Appendix C – Impact Assessment Ysgol Bro Cynllaith Spring 2024 Points raised by the Panel: Responses received from Officers or Cabinet Members. What were the financial savings expected from the closure of Ysgol Bro Cynllaith, please include the delegated sum for the school and any ancillary costs which were allocated regularly and annually. In addition, how much of the closing schools delegated budget would be passported to the receiving in school. From information available of the 2023/24 financial year, the delegated budget share for the school was £200k equating to £8k per pupil. Savings are calculated for Llanrhaeadr-ym-Mochnant as the intake school, with a comparison of budget share derived via the formula. Component one was always transferred to the intake school, and considered any unique factors, with a full split of allocations. Additionally, there was a £145k small school top-up outside the per-pupil element, which would go to the receiving in school, along with dual stream class size top-ups and premises top-ups. Further savings include a detailed revenue saving for the contribution to the Llansilin Memorial Hall, which was funded via PCC to the school of £10.6k. It would have been useful to have the breakdown on savings per pupil included within the reports, rough calculations were that approximately £2k would be passported with the pupil. There was concern that 90% of pupils were closer to an English school, and the closest Powys school may lose funding through the Revenue Support Grant, which had not been factored into any options, would this also necessitate the transport of children to a nearer English school. The per pupil element was being considered for learners not attending the closest Powys school. The reason for transferring Ysgol Bro Cynllaith students to the nearest Powys school is to benefit from the Welsh curriculum, participate in and understand the Welsh language, and expand the catchment area of Llanrhaeadr-ym-Mochnant. If parents choose other schools instead of Llanrhaeadr-ym-Mochnant , they will have that choice, however the preferred costed option was with transport provided to Llanrhaeadr-ym-Mochnant, as this is the nearest alternative school to the majority of pupils attending Ysgol Bro Cynllaith currently. More detail was needed on the class pupil structure in Llanrhaeadr-ym-Mochnant -Ym -Mochnant, including the language split and class set-up. Additionally, information on how pupils might be grouped into different age categories would be helpful An interesting consideration is that Llanrhaeadr-ym-Mochnant is a dual stream school with two classes for the Welsh stream and two classes for the English stream. If all English medium pupils chose the English stream, class structures would need to be arranged to ensure reasonable class sizes. Conversely, if pupils chose the Welsh medium, it would impact the class structure, necessitating a rearrangement. There was not a lot of emphasis within the reports of the benefits of larger class sizes. Various options which include the “classroom in the countryside model” need to have the potential weaknesses explored as much as the benefits. Learners should be encouraged in significant numbers to enter, via the Trochi scheme, Welsh medium education, otherwise the influx of English stream pupils to Llanrhaeadr-ym-Mochnant would go against the progression of the language continuum. Whilst it may not be palatable to suggest, if not wishing to engage in the Trochi scheme, an alternative Powys school may be more appropriate, to allow for Llanrhaeadr-ym-Mochnant to continue along the language continuum. If all pupils transferred into the English medium stream, it would tip the percentage balance in favour of English medium from Welsh medium. It is important to be aware that the Trochi program is available at any time, but it is currently provided at the centre at Ysgol Bro Caereinion. The Trochi programme was not widely available, for the increase in Welsh medium learners Trochi needed to be equally available in all schools and properly funded; anything else was merely a tick box exercise. Quite a few children from Llansilin were committed to a Welsh medium education and were already traveling to Llanrhaeadr-Ym-Mochnant for this purpose, yet not included within the documentation provided to the Committee. The expectation of further Ysgol Bro Cynllaith learners following the same pathway along the language continuum was limited. The assumption that Trochi was not offered to other schools within the catchment must be avoided so as not predetermine and undermine the school. Moving the Trochi centre, for the second half of the term, with 6-7 students to transfer, could be seen as deliberately undermining the viability of the school during the consultation Trochi must be made readily available to all, effectively at learners’ doorsteps; otherwise, engagement in the scheme would be non-existent. Were Powys open to such a proposal once a decision is made. If not, it risks moving Llanrhaeadr-Ym-Mochnant in the wrong direction under the continuum. Long term plans could be explored should the proposal gain approval. However, the current Trochi provision and funding would need to be reviewed, and any logistical issues resolved. Could pupils be transported to English schools, there was a greater risk that once a pathway was established for Powys learners, it would be difficult to reverse the trend. According to the current Home-to-School transport policy, the authority is required to provide transport to the nearest or catchment school regardless of whether that is in or out of county. in terms of secondary provision, Ysgol Llanfyllin is the catchment high school for this part of Northeast Powys. . Regarding the consultation, what options would the community be given if the response was against closure. At what point would this proposal not progress. Additionally, what could the community provide to influence the process and ensure their opinions are not disregarded If the Cabinet gave its approval, the consultation would begin, following the very prescriptive Welsh Government code. During this time, feedback will be received from stakeholders, including the community, staff, governors, and pupils. The issues will be assessed, and a document will be prepared with the council’s responses to questions. The Cabinet will then consider the issues raised and decide whether to proceed, stop the process, or make modifications. Stakeholders can provide viable alternative options or proposals. A community impact assessment will be published in draft form and updated to reflect the feedback received, enabling the Cabinet to make informed decisions If another proposal were put forward that had merit, officers would need to consider it and assess whether it addressed the case for change and the factors within the School Organisation Code. An alternative option should demonstrate that the current proposal was weak and did not merit progressing. It must be noted, however, that the size of Ysgol Bro Cynllaith meant that pupils were taught in mixed age groups of four years and taught in one whole class for one day a week, which makes the school vulnerable if there are any issues with staffing. Considering the natural travel patterns and stronger links with Llanfyllin, has the option of a local classroom in the countryside been explored, if not, why. A dual-stream Welsh language option in Llanfyllin could reduce the need for pupils to travel in different directions, given the short distances involved The options that were considered were set in the context of links with Ysgol Llanrhaeadr ym Mochnant, as the closest primary school. An option that was put forward was for a similar model to the ‘classroom in the country’ model, i.e. that Bro Cynllaith became a satellite site of Ysgol Llanrhaeadr ym Mochnant. However, this was discounted as it did not address the case for change. The site would still be small in Llansilin, there would still need to be 2 teachers and TAs, and it could be argued that this would be a similar situation if Llansilin became a satellite of Ysgol Llanfyllin. The relationship between Bro Cynllaith and Llanrhaeadr-Ym-Mochnant was also a factor to consider. There was confusion regarding the funding per pupil for the 24 pupils in the 2023/24 academic year, with clarity expected to follow. The data was based on the 2023/24 projections, with savings anticipated for the current pupil numbers and into September 2025. The capacity at Llanrhaeadr-Ym-Mochnant was 17 pupils per year group, but what was the maximum number currently in the Year 2 and Year 4 groups. The paperwork indicated the pupil numbers at Llanrhaeadr-Ym-Mochnant, but the capacity was stated as very low. How were the spaces being utilised, and had the council removed a mobile classroom. Additionally, would transport have been provided for pupils from Wrexham or England The timings in the paper, section 5.2 from 2023/24, were updated for the 2024/25 WG, with a little movement formally noted. There was clarity regarding the calculated savings figures and the funding formula relevant to the year the closure would occur. Savings from the delegated budget through the funding formula were examined, with elements of the receiving school not requiring as much of a top-up, including elements for Bro Cynllaith and the receiving school. The data was updated based on the January 2023 PLASC, with PLASC data for 2024 due. The pupil projection was from January 2023. Ysgol Llanrhaeadr ym Mochnant has a capacity of 120 pupils, with Pupil Admissions Number of 17. The current published PAN is 15 but the miscalculation has now been addressed. It is recognised that, if all pupils at Bro Cynllaith chose to transfer to Ysgol Llanrhaeadr ym Mochnant, then some year groups would be over the PAN number. However, the authority would work with the school to ensure that places could be allocated if Bro Cynllaith were to close. The team will check whether the demountable has been removed from the school. Transport is not provided from Shropshire to Ysgol Llanrhaeadr ym Mochnant. The per pupil element in component 1 was included. The ALN element in component 2, which would transfer on top, was allocated to the receiving school, along with the ALN deprivation. An option was requested to model Llanrhaeadr-Ym-Mochnant as the receiving school. It is noted that Ysgol Llanrhaeadr ym Mochnant, being a dual-stream school, would have the same class structure as Ysgol Bro Cynllaith i.e. a 2-class stream. Question raised to to whether data was being used selectively. There was nothing in the report about other options, and the links to Llanfyllin and its community were stronger. The significant community impact was a concern for a small rural school, raising questions about mitigations and what would happen to the building It is noted that there may be a significant impact on the community of Llansilin should the school close. Concerns had been raised by the school, as outlined in the community impact assessment, about the community centre’s dependency on rent from the Council for use of the hall during the school day. The Ysgol Llanfyllin 'classroom in the country’ option will be considered if this is proposed during the consultation, and the Cabinet report will be amended regarding the class structures at Ysgol Llanrhaeadr ym Mochnant. Would the community options be considered first for any potential land sale as the hall was on one side, along with the pub and chapel, and more houses were built around the edge of the village, the field was the community’s only green space. Should the proposal have approval, as the school was in the council’s ownership, the council would apply its asset management policy. This would firstly involve approaching the local community to see if there was interest in the community to take on the building. If this was not an option, then consideration would be given to whether any other Council or public service were interested, and then finally, if these options were not forthcoming, then consideration would be given to selling the site. for the community to use the site. Buses run from Bro Cynllaith to Llanrhaeadr-Ym-Mochnant currently, with buses also to Llanfyllin. When the consultation commences, would there be visits to the schools as part of the consultation. Would all local schools, and the culture be considered within the consultation, as it would appear the original language designation of English medium was a mistake. If Cabinet approves that consultation can begin, then all affected schools would be notified about the consultation. The consultation process includes meetings with the governors, staff, and pupils of Ysgol Bro Cynllaith. The field green space playground was run by the community. Request for capital receipts not to be considered in the first instance if another option was available. Frustration remained that the Llanfyllin option was not consulted on as surely would have been appropriate and necessary. If another proposal were brought forward as a viable option, of which there was precedence, Cabinet would have to decide whether that new option was viable a to proceed with a further consultation, there were also timescale implications. Llanrhaeadr-Ym-Mochnant per pupil head funding was approximately £6k for a 2-class dual stream structure. The comment in the papers of Bro Cynllaith pupils taught in one class on Friday was slightly unfair as Bro Cynllaith managed the school’s finances tightly and could have run up a deficit by bringing in additional support. The Standard Spending Assessment formula by Welsh Government could further explanation be provided to committee when forwarding the actual financial information on Llanrhaeadr-Ym-Mochnant Llanfyllin as a much larger school would have greater capacity and resilience to assist in this situation as well as the linkages already in place. It was a fact that pupils were taught in a single classroom one day per week, however what had not been mentioned was the huge challenge the school and headteacher faced. There were difficulties in catering for all pupils across the year groups, and the service was aware of the hard work undertaken. When any school pupil numbers drop below 30, those schools are vulnerable to any changes in staffing, the financial and educational viability moving forward, Bro Cynllaith have been open to discussions and have been doing the best they can in these circumstances. In the Option 5 weaknesses, it stated that some of the pupils were closer to schools in Shropshire, this was a misrepresentation of the situation, as 90% of the current learners were closer to Shropshire schools. Powys Schools Service needed to be precise in its information within documentation. The Condition Survey was categorised as C based on a previous survey. Since then, the school had received a new roof, a new drive or parking area, and security fencing was being input, so what was the category now. It was unclear within the reports how much of a maintenance backlog remained. It is noted that the condition assessment is based on 2016 survey. New condition surveys have been carried out recently, however this information is not available currently. It is recognised that there has been investment in the school since 2016. Had there been a missed opportunity if Bro Cynllaith were Welsh medium would it attract pupils into Powys. It would be a small Welsh school. There are currently 11 pupils from the community that travel to Llanrhaeadr-ym-Mochnant for Welsh medium education. Many of the staff are not fluent in Welsh so would be unable to teach or support through the medium of Welsh. Were the transport costs to Llanrhaeadr-ym-Mochnant over inflated. Currently there are 2 smaller buses used to transport learners to Llanrhaeadr-ym-Mochnant, the average daily costs in the reports were based on a larger capacity bus and the additional mileage and estimated at £372 per day. There remained confusion as to how the proposal aligned with the revised Home to School Transport draft Policy in relation to pupils being closer to schools across county or country borders. Officers will discuss further with the Transport Unit as currently the policy is to the closest or catchment school. If the proposal is implemented, then Ysgol Llanrhaeadr-Ym-Mochnant becomes the closest and catchment school in Powys for the majority of pupils currently at Ysgol Bro Cynllaith. Question raised whether the Powys Home to School Transport Policy overrides Welsh legislation All maintained schools would surely be deemed suitable schools' clarification sort on the definition from Welsh Government. School transport should be a top priority of the Marches agreement. Cabinet Member for a Learning Powys confirmed that officers had been requested to open such negotiations with Shropshire as could had a bearing on how Welsh medium education was developed particularly in the Welshpool area.
Cllr Bryn, as the Working Group Chair, gave the Learning and Skills Scrutiny Committee a verbal update on the aims, objectives and progress of the Trochi Working Group to date.
Schools of Concern was requested to be included within the Work Programme.
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