Economy & Culture Scrutiny Committee

The committee scrutinised key documents on the proposed transfer of St David's Hall, including a Voluntary Ex-Ante Transparency Notice (VEAT). A VEAT is a public notice that a contract is planned without a full competition, which lets others challenge it. Members questioned officers on the lack of bids, the classical music programme, community events and the lease. The committee agreed that the Chairperson would write to the Cabinet Member with its observations.

1. St David's Hall: next steps for a proposed property transfer

   Decided

   The committee agreed that the Chairperson would write to the Cabinet Member conveying the committee's observations on the way forward.

   Why

   The item let the committee scrutinise the documents for the proposed transfer of St David's Hall before a future Cabinet report. A soft marketing exercise, an early check of market interest, produced no bids. Feedback to the independent surveyor pointed mainly to liabilities linked to the building, and to a lesser extent to the commitment to keep the classical programme without a subsidy. Officers said the 2017 exercise had at least two bidders seeking a council subsidy, but that it had marketed St David's Hall together with the New Theatre. Members asked that the commitment to 80 or 90 days of classical programming a year be highlighted in a press release. Officers said 80 or 90 days was the minimum and that the public experience should be as good or better. Community events would be covered by a Memorandum of Understanding, and the Arts Active team would stay within the council. Members said the committee should be able to scrutinise the proposed stakeholder advisory partnership board, which officers presented as a chance to improve the hall. The VEAT would run for 28 days, rather than the legal minimum of 10. Officers said the St David's Hall transaction was separate from the new Cardiff arena. They said AMG is partly owned by Live Nation, the preferred bidder for the arena, but that the procurement was open and there was no commercial connection. Officers said the lease's 'keep open' clause could require the operator to carry out necessary works, and that the building's condition would be monitored each year. The lease would not set ticket prices, which Live Nation would decide. Officers said the Competition and Markets Authority had not signalled any review of the transaction. The committee moved into private session to discuss the exempt appendices.

   Based on the minutes

Written by AI from the council's minutes and reports. Sentences with a number or name that can't be found in those papers are removed automatically, but mistakes are still possible. Councils publish no word-for-word record of meetings, so this says what was decided and why. Read the official papers to be sure.

1. 1

   Apologies for Absence

   Minute

   Apologies had been received from Cllrs Jenkins, Shimmin and Thomson.

2. 2

   Declarations of Interest

   Minute

   Cllrs. Berman, Brown-Reckless and Henshaw declared personal interests as they had attended events at St David’s Hall and applied for tickets to Cardiff Singer of the World.

3. 3

   Minutes

   Minute

   The minutes of the meeting held on 25th April 2023 were agreed as a correct record and signed by the Chairperson.

   Papers: Minutes 25/04/2023
4. 4

   St Davids Hall - Next Steps

   Decision as recorded

   AGREED: that the Chairperson, on behalf of the Committee, writes to the Cabinet Member conveying the observations of the Committee when discussing the way forward.

   Minute

   Members were advised that this item was to enable scrutiny of key documents relating to the proposed property transfer of St David’s Hall, including the Voluntary Ex-Ante Transparency Notice (VEAT notice). The Chairperson welcomed Cllr. Burke (Cabinet Member – Culture, Parks & Events), Kathryn Richards (Head of Marketing, Tourism and Events), Scott Couzens and Rebecca Pendlebury (Bevan Brittan LLP), who were attending remotely, and Neil Hanratty (Director of Economic Development), Ruth Cayford (Operational Manager – Creative Industries and Culture), Chris Barnett (OM Major Projects), Donna Jones (Assistant Director – County Estates) and Eirian Jones (Operational Manager – Estates) who were attending in person. Cllr. Burke was invited to make a statement, after which Neil Hanratty gave his presentation. Members were asked for their comments, observations and questions. Members heard that a soft marketing exercise had resulted in no bids. Potential bidders had six weeks to submit an expression of interest, which was a standard window. Feedback given to the independent surveyor indicated that the main reasons for the lack of bids were the liabilities associated with the building, along with, to a lesser extent, the commitment to preserving the classical programme without a subsidy. Members noted that the previous marketing exercise in 2017 had resulted in at least two bidders who wanted a council subsidy as part of negotiations. Officers clarified that this exercise had coupled St. David’s Hall with the New Theatre, with the interest focused on the latter. Members advocated ensuring that the commitment to maintain the classical programme for either 80 or 90 days per year was highlighted in a press release accompanying the VEAT. Officers confirmed that the public experience of the venue’s classical music offer should be just as good, if not better, and that the 80/90 day figure was the minimum. Members queried the status of community events which took place in the hall and were separate to the classical programme. The way these would be handled would be covered in the Memorandum of Understanding, which would be attached to the future Cabinet report. The Arts Active team would stay within the council. Discussing the proposed stakeholder advisory partnership board, Members were advised that the committee should be able to scrutinise this body. This was an opportunity to ensure St. David’s Hall was improved rather than just preserved. Members were provided with information about when the relevant documents would enter the public domain, and heard that the VEAT notice would go out for 28 days rather than the legal minimum of 10. Organisations interested in challenging the VEAT would be able to seek disclosure of further information, although some parts of it could be redacted. Officers clarified that the possible transaction regarding St. David’s Hall was entirely separate to the delivery of the new Cardiff arena. AMG was partly owned by Live Nation, which is the preferred bidder for the arena, but there had been an open and transparent procurement process and there is no commercial connection between the two transactions. Members heard about the provisions of the lease agreement in the event of a breach. If the building concerns were not addressed, then the ‘keep open’ clause could force the operator to carry out the necessary works. The condition of the building would be proactively monitored on an annual basis. Members were informed that while the lease agreement would ensure the provision of the classical programme, it would not cover things like ticket prices, which Live Nation would set. It was a lease rather than a service delivery document. Members heard that the Competition and Markets Authority had not indicated to the Council any intention to review this transaction. The Chairperson noted that Appendices 2-5 contained confidential information, so the committee moved into exempt session to discuss them. AGREED: that the Chairperson, on behalf of the Committee, writes to the Cabinet Member conveying the observations of the Committee when discussing the way forward.

Councillors must say when they have a personal link to something being discussed, such as a job, a property or a family member. A prejudicial interest is one strong enough that the councillor usually leaves the room and takes no part.

• Berman: Personal interest on St Davids Hall - Next Steps

  Attended events at St David's Hall and applied for tickets to Cardiff Singer of the World.

• Brown-Reckless: Personal interest on St Davids Hall - Next Steps

  Attended events at St David's Hall and applied for tickets to Cardiff Singer of the World.

• Henshaw: Personal interest on St Davids Hall - Next Steps

  Attended events at St David's Hall and applied for tickets to Cardiff Singer of the World.

• Peter Wong, ChairLabourPresent
• Catriona Brown-Reckless, Committee MemberConservativePresent
• Dan Naughton, Committee MemberLiberal DemocratRecorded
• Helen Lloyd Jones, Committee MemberLabourPresent
• Jon Shimmin, Committee MemberLiberal DemocratSent apologies
• Leonora Thomson, Committee MemberLabourSent apologies
• Peter Huw Jenkins, Committee MemberLabourSent apologies
• Rodney Berman, Committee MemberLiberal DemocratPresent